One of my pet peeves is when people say a format isn’t “legitimate”. Phase-based matrix encoding and decoding (such as is used in Pro Logic, Pro Logic II, Pro Logic IIx, etc. was the theater standard for nearly 30 years. It can sound phenomenal, even though it’s deriving rear and center channel information from a stereo source.

The jump from stereo to Pro Logixc surround to discrete surround (Dolby Digital) was not as big as the jump from mono to stereo so let’s not take anything away from those who have expended huge amounts of time and resources to come up with ways of improving older techniques to enhance our experience. Formats like DOlby Pro Logic IIz, DTS Neo:6 and SRS Circle Surround are no less “legitimate” than Dolby TrueHD, they just serve different purposes.

I totally agree with Tom. There are very few 7.1 BD disks out now so why add more channels to your theater now. I went from 6.1 to 7.1 because I got a good deal on a identical rear suround, but I haven’t actually watched many movies with 7.1 sound tracks.

I had the fantastic experience and opportunity to actually hear the 10.2 system that Audyssey and THX have been developing and it truly is better.

I had Tomlinson Holman’s partner (that’s the TH in THX)  at Audyssey demo at CES this January, a standard 7.1 recording, and then the 10.2 system in an A and B session.  The added depth of the front stage really had the “you are there” feeling.  Not that 7.1 is bad, it’s amazing, however compared to the 10.2 system, it lacked the “live” feeling of the High L/R and C. Ch.

And to comment to Tom above, none of this is a waste of time.  ProLogic II isn’t technically a format either, but our industry must always continue to push the barriers to get to audio perfection.

Also, to be fair to Onkyo, they are not INTRODUCING 9.1.  Hell Denon has the 9.3 AVP-A1HDCI, and Yamaha has a freaking 11.2 system in the RX-Z11.  Lets not beat up on Onkyo, heck at this point they are playing the CATCH UP GAME!!!

Additionally, the added surround channels in a system do very little psychoacoustically (although they do something), to add to the listening experience.  The added pressence speakers deepen the sound stage and come about a close as possible to a REALISTIC sound.

@Tom: THX already has a 10.2 standard which is 10.2 discrete channels. It’s 7.1 with the following changes:
It has the same higher front left and right speakers, and adds a center above the screen, and specifies front and rear subwoofers.  Apple’s quicktime format already supports it, and 10.2 was shown to both the Blu-ray consortium and HD-DVD consortium for possible inclusion to each standard (which they both declined).

Yamaha has had front ‘presence’ speakers for at least a couple of years.  Their solution is different from dolby’s but it’s a synthesized pair of channels just like prologic IIz.  It does add a sense of space and realism above a 5.1 or 7.1 system.  Just because the channels are synthetically derived, it doesn’t mean they don’t add something.  I’ve heard a Yamaha receiver with the presence channels connected, and it’s decent.

That being said, I’d need to see a bunch of new material encoded in 10.2 and be completely blown away before I’d consider replacing my pre/pro, buying three more channels of amplification and add 3 more speakers to my theater.

Prologic IIz is an absolute waste of time. Its not a legitamate format. There is no source material that has those dedicated channels.

I think we need to focus on 7.1. 90% of everything out there is 5.1 still. It makes no sense to introduce 9.1 when 7.1 hasnt become the standard.

I really wish Onkyo would change there cosemetic appearence of there receivers. They have used the same look with a patheteic display window for the longest time.